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	<title>Comments on: Singapore and how far we have come.</title>
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	<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/</link>
	<description>It&#039;s where we talk</description>
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		<title>By: Zizie</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-976</link>
		<dc:creator>Zizie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-976</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if my name&#039;s a Malay name cos I have been mistaken for a lot of nationalities before (even landing a florist job because they thought I was Chinese via my name, then having second thoughts about it after I told them I&#039;m Malay, hahaha, but that&#039;s not the point), anyway I&#039;m Malay and in university.

My family have been telling me about racial quotas my whole life, and my mother was able to direct me to another angle towards this issue which was quite enlightening. See, instead of looking at how it might shortchange Malays, look at how it might benefit us.

Without the quota, more Chinese students would have gotten the places because the amount of those who qualify is really, well, a lot. (to put it simply.) thus, the quota actually gives Malays a number of promised places in universities.

but of course, my stand on the whole issue is still - have more universities! how can 3 be even remotely enough for the entire nation? D: i forgot the statistics i used to be able to read off the back of my hand, regarding the number of places for the number of applicants? but it was horrifying.

and some parents&#039; views about SMU is still very much skewed, which goes to show how long a university needs before it can be really accepted by the nation. all the best to the fourth upcoming one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if my name&#8217;s a Malay name cos I have been mistaken for a lot of nationalities before (even landing a florist job because they thought I was Chinese via my name, then having second thoughts about it after I told them I&#8217;m Malay, hahaha, but that&#8217;s not the point), anyway I&#8217;m Malay and in university.</p>
<p>My family have been telling me about racial quotas my whole life, and my mother was able to direct me to another angle towards this issue which was quite enlightening. See, instead of looking at how it might shortchange Malays, look at how it might benefit us.</p>
<p>Without the quota, more Chinese students would have gotten the places because the amount of those who qualify is really, well, a lot. (to put it simply.) thus, the quota actually gives Malays a number of promised places in universities.</p>
<p>but of course, my stand on the whole issue is still &#8211; have more universities! how can 3 be even remotely enough for the entire nation? D: i forgot the statistics i used to be able to read off the back of my hand, regarding the number of places for the number of applicants? but it was horrifying.</p>
<p>and some parents&#8217; views about SMU is still very much skewed, which goes to show how long a university needs before it can be really accepted by the nation. all the best to the fourth upcoming one!</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Sgcynic - Agreed!  *Shakes hand*  :)

Catty - I see where you got your nick from.

Puvan - I like your spirit too.  But one question - would you consider the Flying Dutchman (whom some of us might listen to on Class 95) a foreign talent?  How about his kids?

For people who weren&#039;t born in Singapore but who have settled here and made their home here, at what point do we consider them naturalised?  You mentioned the soccer game.  How about Daniel Bennett, who was born in England but who grew up in Singapore, attended school in Singapore etc., from the age of 2?  Would you consider him an &quot;expat&quot; or a &quot;foreign talent&quot; too?

Personally, I&#039;m also uncomfortable with how we seem to be attracting foreigners to come to Singapore and expediting their citizenship clearance for sporting or economic reasons, but I also know of many &quot;non-Singaporeans&quot; who grew up here, attended mainstream school here, and have settled down and raised families here.  What about them?  Are we being fair to them by being so... dare I say it... xenophobic?

Tszsan - I actually agree with you that meritocracy seems to be a strange concept for a country to bond over, but that&#039;s Singapore for you.  It&#039;s precisely because, like Puvan said, we wanted a system that would reward people for their hard work &quot;regardless of race, language or religion&quot;, that meritocracy emerged as our mantra.  I do agree that there&#039;re grounds for that stand to be softened or tempered somewhat, though.  Maybe more thought should be given to what Law Minister K Shanmugam said some time back.

Thoughts, people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sgcynic &#8211; Agreed!  *Shakes hand*  <img src='http://www.p65.sg/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Catty &#8211; I see where you got your nick from.</p>
<p>Puvan &#8211; I like your spirit too.  But one question &#8211; would you consider the Flying Dutchman (whom some of us might listen to on Class 95) a foreign talent?  How about his kids?</p>
<p>For people who weren&#8217;t born in Singapore but who have settled here and made their home here, at what point do we consider them naturalised?  You mentioned the soccer game.  How about Daniel Bennett, who was born in England but who grew up in Singapore, attended school in Singapore etc., from the age of 2?  Would you consider him an &#8220;expat&#8221; or a &#8220;foreign talent&#8221; too?</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m also uncomfortable with how we seem to be attracting foreigners to come to Singapore and expediting their citizenship clearance for sporting or economic reasons, but I also know of many &#8220;non-Singaporeans&#8221; who grew up here, attended mainstream school here, and have settled down and raised families here.  What about them?  Are we being fair to them by being so&#8230; dare I say it&#8230; xenophobic?</p>
<p>Tszsan &#8211; I actually agree with you that meritocracy seems to be a strange concept for a country to bond over, but that&#8217;s Singapore for you.  It&#8217;s precisely because, like Puvan said, we wanted a system that would reward people for their hard work &#8220;regardless of race, language or religion&#8221;, that meritocracy emerged as our mantra.  I do agree that there&#8217;re grounds for that stand to be softened or tempered somewhat, though.  Maybe more thought should be given to what Law Minister K Shanmugam said some time back.</p>
<p>Thoughts, people?</p>
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		<title>By: Puvan</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Puvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-131</guid>
		<description>tszsan, hello there. i will really like to post a question to you. how will you like it if you were discriminated from the others because of your race or religion? u didnt ask to be born as a Chinese. but because of your race, you are always treated second class or given lesser privileges. Sad huh? EXACTLY! so in this world where conflict is common, shouldnt we wipe out the possible conflicts which can uprise because of race, religion or socio-economic bg? Back in the 1965, meritocracy wasn put in place and thus, descrimination of races were somethings which were very common. so, to prevent such a situation NOW, so that ALL of us are given equal rights; be it bonuses or jobs or even education, based on criteria such as academic or achievements rather than race, religion or socio-economic bgs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tszsan, hello there. i will really like to post a question to you. how will you like it if you were discriminated from the others because of your race or religion? u didnt ask to be born as a Chinese. but because of your race, you are always treated second class or given lesser privileges. Sad huh? EXACTLY! so in this world where conflict is common, shouldnt we wipe out the possible conflicts which can uprise because of race, religion or socio-economic bg? Back in the 1965, meritocracy wasn put in place and thus, descrimination of races were somethings which were very common. so, to prevent such a situation NOW, so that ALL of us are given equal rights; be it bonuses or jobs or even education, based on criteria such as academic or achievements rather than race, religion or socio-economic bgs</p>
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		<title>By: tszsan</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>tszsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-124</guid>
		<description>By the way, why on earth do you guys want meritocracy so much? It increases socio economic inequality and promotes a culture of competition between individuals in society. Great if you are running a business or a factory (which in some ways Singapore can be likened to that), but not so great if you are running a country (worse if you are living in that country). 

Quite a strange concept this meritocracy thing to use to bind people together....i mean usually you can bind people together with some communitarian idea such as republicanism or something that is universal like liberty where it empahsises what people share...not with an idea that people need to compete with each other to climb the social hierarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, why on earth do you guys want meritocracy so much? It increases socio economic inequality and promotes a culture of competition between individuals in society. Great if you are running a business or a factory (which in some ways Singapore can be likened to that), but not so great if you are running a country (worse if you are living in that country). </p>
<p>Quite a strange concept this meritocracy thing to use to bind people together&#8230;.i mean usually you can bind people together with some communitarian idea such as republicanism or something that is universal like liberty where it empahsises what people share&#8230;not with an idea that people need to compete with each other to climb the social hierarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-110</guid>
		<description>Puvan, I like your spirit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Puvan, I like your spirit!</p>
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		<title>By: in your face</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>in your face</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-109</guid>
		<description>ronin, please lah, your nick tells me you are always in the hiding which also explains why you would make these comments and hide.  Just not worth it to engage you.  Have a good weekend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ronin, please lah, your nick tells me you are always in the hiding which also explains why you would make these comments and hide.  Just not worth it to engage you.  Have a good weekend</p>
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		<title>By: Puvan</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Puvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-108</guid>
		<description>hi there Kartini, 
thats true.. Singapore was a founded country and back then when the population growth was low, there was a need to call foreigners for us to raise the population rate. but must that always happen? When are we, as the present badge of Singaporeans, goin to take things into our hands and work for our future? our forefathers may be from other countries but 50 years down the road, the generation should say &quot;even my forefathers 50 yrs ago were Singaporeans&quot; and not &quot;I am the first Singaporean in my family&quot;. Although we belong to this red dot on the world map which has one of the largest population density in the world, we must let others know that every credit we earn in by a Singaporean. our Olympic games, who represented Singapore? China expats. It was a game of China(representing S&#039;pore) against China. When Liverpool came over to play and news came out that people did not fan out supports for the Young Lions, people started regretting. but thinking deeper, Young Lions consist of foreign talent as well. WHEN are we going to play as a full Singaporean spirit? Yes, we cannot fall in this competitve world, but when we are all drilled that we should fight AS A COUNTRY, the credit only goes to Singaporeans. we have to start now and not think about 50 years down the road. cos 40 years ago, they thought of the same thing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi there Kartini,<br />
thats true.. Singapore was a founded country and back then when the population growth was low, there was a need to call foreigners for us to raise the population rate. but must that always happen? When are we, as the present badge of Singaporeans, goin to take things into our hands and work for our future? our forefathers may be from other countries but 50 years down the road, the generation should say &#8220;even my forefathers 50 yrs ago were Singaporeans&#8221; and not &#8220;I am the first Singaporean in my family&#8221;. Although we belong to this red dot on the world map which has one of the largest population density in the world, we must let others know that every credit we earn in by a Singaporean. our Olympic games, who represented Singapore? China expats. It was a game of China(representing S&#8217;pore) against China. When Liverpool came over to play and news came out that people did not fan out supports for the Young Lions, people started regretting. but thinking deeper, Young Lions consist of foreign talent as well. WHEN are we going to play as a full Singaporean spirit? Yes, we cannot fall in this competitve world, but when we are all drilled that we should fight AS A COUNTRY, the credit only goes to Singaporeans. we have to start now and not think about 50 years down the road. cos 40 years ago, they thought of the same thing</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Hi Puvan, in France, the French have this policy of treating all as &quot;equal&quot; and they proclaim that they&#039;re all French regardless of race or religion. But the reality is there is a lot of inequalities for the French people of North African descent. They&#039;re second or third generation migrant and yet have very very different realities from the rest of the FRench people (actually if you think about it, many of us are third or fourth generation Singaporeans cos our ancestors came from China/India/the region). This approach of not looking at racial categories has made it difficult for them to analyse and target issues that may be a particular problem to a community. So it&#039;s not a perfect world even when we all proclaim ourselves as &quot;one&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Puvan, in France, the French have this policy of treating all as &#8220;equal&#8221; and they proclaim that they&#8217;re all French regardless of race or religion. But the reality is there is a lot of inequalities for the French people of North African descent. They&#8217;re second or third generation migrant and yet have very very different realities from the rest of the FRench people (actually if you think about it, many of us are third or fourth generation Singaporeans cos our ancestors came from China/India/the region). This approach of not looking at racial categories has made it difficult for them to analyse and target issues that may be a particular problem to a community. So it&#8217;s not a perfect world even when we all proclaim ourselves as &#8220;one&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Catty</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Catty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-106</guid>
		<description>Same shitty P65 as before...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same shitty P65 as before&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sgcynic</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2009/08/singapore-and-beyond/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>sgcynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=22#comment-104</guid>
		<description>Hi Adrian,

Thanks for remembering me?? Strange that you feel that I would label you as a “government stooge”. I respect different perspectives, if they are heartfelt or well-reasoned. It is ok for people to like the government if they genuinely feel so.

&quot;You know what I find even more irritating than someone who just blindly supports and rubber-stamps everything the government does, refusing to listen to or acknowledge any criticism, though? Someone who just wants to oppose and bad-mouth everything the government does, refusing to listen to or acknowledge any supporting views.&quot; Totally agree. The converse definitely is true too. Credit and criticisms are given where they are deserved. They are necessary ingredients in a democracy that puports to believe in an practise accountability and transpacrency, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Adrian,</p>
<p>Thanks for remembering me?? Strange that you feel that I would label you as a “government stooge”. I respect different perspectives, if they are heartfelt or well-reasoned. It is ok for people to like the government if they genuinely feel so.</p>
<p>&#8220;You know what I find even more irritating than someone who just blindly supports and rubber-stamps everything the government does, refusing to listen to or acknowledge any criticism, though? Someone who just wants to oppose and bad-mouth everything the government does, refusing to listen to or acknowledge any supporting views.&#8221; Totally agree. The converse definitely is true too. Credit and criticisms are given where they are deserved. They are necessary ingredients in a democracy that puports to believe in an practise accountability and transpacrency, no?</p>
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