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	<title>Comments on: An increasingly open world, but many closed minds?</title>
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	<description>It&#039;s where we talk</description>
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		<title>By: PAP and Gerrymandering</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1393</link>
		<dc:creator>PAP and Gerrymandering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1393</guid>
		<description>Khartini,

if you were voted into parliament would you speak up for your community or would you let MM Lee Kuan Yew say whatever he pleases?

The time has come to stick the spurs into the PAP&#039;s ultra think hide.A couple of us are going to start a facebook group to vote out the PAP.I understand there is one with almost 5,000.We should aim for 500,000.

Then the PAP will open the floodgate to a further 5 million foreigners.And I am very sure they won&#039;t be any malays from Indonesia and Malaysia.Why is that?

This is GERRYMANDERING.Redrawing rules,boundaries,increasing pays and bonuses,expunging inheritance taxes,suing opponents and newspapers for defemation. 

Which MP shall I ask?Any suggestions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Khartini,</p>
<p>if you were voted into parliament would you speak up for your community or would you let MM Lee Kuan Yew say whatever he pleases?</p>
<p>The time has come to stick the spurs into the PAP&#8217;s ultra think hide.A couple of us are going to start a facebook group to vote out the PAP.I understand there is one with almost 5,000.We should aim for 500,000.</p>
<p>Then the PAP will open the floodgate to a further 5 million foreigners.And I am very sure they won&#8217;t be any malays from Indonesia and Malaysia.Why is that?</p>
<p>This is GERRYMANDERING.Redrawing rules,boundaries,increasing pays and bonuses,expunging inheritance taxes,suing opponents and newspapers for defemation. </p>
<p>Which MP shall I ask?Any suggestions?</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1389</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1389</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I really have no idea. Do ask the Malay MPs if you wish. I do not speak for them, I only speak for myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I really have no idea. Do ask the Malay MPs if you wish. I do not speak for them, I only speak for myself.</p>
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		<title>By: PAP and Gerrymandering</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1387</link>
		<dc:creator>PAP and Gerrymandering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1387</guid>
		<description>Khartini,

why didn&#039;t the PAP Muslim MPs not castigate MM for his remarks?Absoluely appaling that he has these views.So is this whole Singapore Multi racial country a sham?Something to gloss things over?

Why can&#039;t your PAP party look beyond race,language or religion?Are they no different than the British Colonial masters?

It&#039;s about time we introduce the sedition act on our leaders who seem to think that they can get away woth anything.Pandora&#039;s box will open and we will look at their assets.Temasek and GIC&#039;s losseswill be known very soon and pandemonium will break loose.

We are being straighjacketed by a group of people who do not have the people&#039;s mandate.They Gerrymnder and cheat their way to parliament.Get in through the backdoor and still have the audacity to vote on Parliamentary bills and change the Constitution as they please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Khartini,</p>
<p>why didn&#8217;t the PAP Muslim MPs not castigate MM for his remarks?Absoluely appaling that he has these views.So is this whole Singapore Multi racial country a sham?Something to gloss things over?</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t your PAP party look beyond race,language or religion?Are they no different than the British Colonial masters?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s about time we introduce the sedition act on our leaders who seem to think that they can get away woth anything.Pandora&#8217;s box will open and we will look at their assets.Temasek and GIC&#8217;s losseswill be known very soon and pandemonium will break loose.</p>
<p>We are being straighjacketed by a group of people who do not have the people&#8217;s mandate.They Gerrymnder and cheat their way to parliament.Get in through the backdoor and still have the audacity to vote on Parliamentary bills and change the Constitution as they please.</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1368</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1368</guid>
		<description>That is stated in MUIS&#039;s book for it&#039;s 40th anniversary and in newspapers.The Toa Payoh people may have gone &quot;knocking on doors&quot; for money but the MBF as a mechanism for Muslims to contribute was from LKY. So I do not intend to ponder on this forever for the MBF has led to the building of many mosques, so it was a good mechanism, period. MBF is at least by the community for the community. If you want to talk about what the Malays &quot;gave up&quot; in the past I think you can come up with a lot of things the Sultans and the leaders of the past gave up during colonialism for their self-serving interests.  Those were their choices for whatever reasons, as unfortunate and as unflattering as it is for the community&#039;s history.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.muis.gov.sg/cms/services/Mosques.aspx?id=281&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MUIS&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Straits Times&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is stated in MUIS&#8217;s book for it&#8217;s 40th anniversary and in newspapers.The Toa Payoh people may have gone &#8220;knocking on doors&#8221; for money but the MBF as a mechanism for Muslims to contribute was from LKY. So I do not intend to ponder on this forever for the MBF has led to the building of many mosques, so it was a good mechanism, period. MBF is at least by the community for the community. If you want to talk about what the Malays &#8220;gave up&#8221; in the past I think you can come up with a lot of things the Sultans and the leaders of the past gave up during colonialism for their self-serving interests.  Those were their choices for whatever reasons, as unfortunate and as unflattering as it is for the community&#8217;s history.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.muis.gov.sg/cms/services/Mosques.aspx?id=281" rel="nofollow">MUIS</a><br />
<a href="http://" rel="nofollow">Straits Times</a></p>
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		<title>By: the real story</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>the real story</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>Hi Khartini 

You do not know the actual historical fact about the Mosque Building Fund. Is not LKY who proposed it, a group of young Malays in Toa Payoh in 1969s who suggested it , put forward and use it a weak bargaining chip when Singapore Govt want  to retake the Waqaf lands in Singapore and end its 999 years lease term. Since you are an English &amp; Sociology graduate, what about you do some research on it and you will  find the truth that you that will leave you pondering forever...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Khartini </p>
<p>You do not know the actual historical fact about the Mosque Building Fund. Is not LKY who proposed it, a group of young Malays in Toa Payoh in 1969s who suggested it , put forward and use it a weak bargaining chip when Singapore Govt want  to retake the Waqaf lands in Singapore and end its 999 years lease term. Since you are an English &amp; Sociology graduate, what about you do some research on it and you will  find the truth that you that will leave you pondering forever&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1304</guid>
		<description>On the NatGeo article, I certainly do not share his comments on that. I think that it was unfortunate that he picked the Malays as an example. But since he said &quot;vice versa&quot; I think that goes the other way too, would a non-Malay share the last grains of rice with a Malay? That gives a different dimension to the discussion. I think I am more optimistic about race relations in Singapore. 

I assume you are saying that he has made certain disparaging remarks about Malays. As I have mentioned somewhere (I think it was in another post&#039;s response to someone who asked me about this) I have disagreed with LKY&#039;s views on Malays. I wrote a rebuttal to his points on Malays being too centered on mosques and not mixing enough with society some years back. It was featured in the Straits Times.

That said, even though Mr Lee is an important figure in Singapore&#039;s political structure, he is not the only one that matters. I do not think his view on this is shared by everyone else in Cabinet. I suppose sometimes it is hard to change the mindset of some people. And because he is larger than life, we take everything he says seriously.

However, we must acknowledge that he and the 1st generation of PAP leaders have done many other things that have enabled Malays to be part of Singapore&#039;s story of success and progress. And he has given speeches and interviews that contain positive comments on the Malays though of course, as usual, negative comments would draw more attention as compared to positive ones (bad news always make better news than good news). So although I disagree with him on some points, I acknowledge that he has done some things that are good for our community. For instance, I just read that the idea of the Mosque Building Fund (MBF) came from him in the 70&#039;s and was not initiated from within the community. The MBF is critical to the state of the many mosques that we have today, which serves a central need of the Muslim community. 

As for the point on Middle East, this influence of Arabization of Islam in Southeast Asia is a phenomenon that has occurred gradually over the last 20-30 years or so. Even if they were pious, on the whole the Malays of the past were not as &quot;Islamic&quot; in their appearance and public behavior as they are today. Just watch P Ramlee movies, pictures of Malay women in the past etc and you wont see many women in headscarves, some were wearing lacey tight kebayas, bathing in the sea with their sarongs, etc. So there is a change. It is a relatively new phenomenon that is global (not only local) and it has to do with many factors. The Southeast Asian Malay-Muslim communities in the past lived with more elements of influence from Hinduism, mysticism etc, and can be said to have been more tolerant of pluralism in the past. But with increasing Islamization and Arabization, a lot of these elements (including cultural art forms etc) have died because when something is branded as &quot;UnIslamic&quot; it becomes &quot;illegitimate&quot; in the eyes of an increasingly religious society now, and you can see this in Malaysia too. I would actually say that Arab culture and ways of being has been creeping into the Malay community - you can see more Arabic sounding names now (some sound more Arabic than Arab names!), people wearing the Arabic jubah...etc....and Malayness has taken a backseat somehow and the Malay identity has evolved to include more elements of influence from the Middle East (dressing, mannerisms, etc).

As for the headscarf - it would be right to say that more women are wearing it now as opposed to the past. Muslim women of the past in Singapore did not really include the headscarf as part of their daily attire. I would not say it is &quot;without rhyme or reason&quot; though, there are plenty of reasons - religious, social and so on.

To relate it to my point in this post about religious harmony, on the whole, our govt has promoted religious harmony and takes pains to ensure that religious harmony is maintained in Singapore. There are many other examples of governments that inhibit religious harmony and practice rather than promote it. While we may disagree with what one individual in the government says about some things we also have to look at things holistically. We would not want to miss the woods for the trees. I think society also has to play a part in promoting these values, it is not the govt&#039;s job alone in doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the NatGeo article, I certainly do not share his comments on that. I think that it was unfortunate that he picked the Malays as an example. But since he said &#8220;vice versa&#8221; I think that goes the other way too, would a non-Malay share the last grains of rice with a Malay? That gives a different dimension to the discussion. I think I am more optimistic about race relations in Singapore. </p>
<p>I assume you are saying that he has made certain disparaging remarks about Malays. As I have mentioned somewhere (I think it was in another post&#8217;s response to someone who asked me about this) I have disagreed with LKY&#8217;s views on Malays. I wrote a rebuttal to his points on Malays being too centered on mosques and not mixing enough with society some years back. It was featured in the Straits Times.</p>
<p>That said, even though Mr Lee is an important figure in Singapore&#8217;s political structure, he is not the only one that matters. I do not think his view on this is shared by everyone else in Cabinet. I suppose sometimes it is hard to change the mindset of some people. And because he is larger than life, we take everything he says seriously.</p>
<p>However, we must acknowledge that he and the 1st generation of PAP leaders have done many other things that have enabled Malays to be part of Singapore&#8217;s story of success and progress. And he has given speeches and interviews that contain positive comments on the Malays though of course, as usual, negative comments would draw more attention as compared to positive ones (bad news always make better news than good news). So although I disagree with him on some points, I acknowledge that he has done some things that are good for our community. For instance, I just read that the idea of the Mosque Building Fund (MBF) came from him in the 70&#8217;s and was not initiated from within the community. The MBF is critical to the state of the many mosques that we have today, which serves a central need of the Muslim community. </p>
<p>As for the point on Middle East, this influence of Arabization of Islam in Southeast Asia is a phenomenon that has occurred gradually over the last 20-30 years or so. Even if they were pious, on the whole the Malays of the past were not as &#8220;Islamic&#8221; in their appearance and public behavior as they are today. Just watch P Ramlee movies, pictures of Malay women in the past etc and you wont see many women in headscarves, some were wearing lacey tight kebayas, bathing in the sea with their sarongs, etc. So there is a change. It is a relatively new phenomenon that is global (not only local) and it has to do with many factors. The Southeast Asian Malay-Muslim communities in the past lived with more elements of influence from Hinduism, mysticism etc, and can be said to have been more tolerant of pluralism in the past. But with increasing Islamization and Arabization, a lot of these elements (including cultural art forms etc) have died because when something is branded as &#8220;UnIslamic&#8221; it becomes &#8220;illegitimate&#8221; in the eyes of an increasingly religious society now, and you can see this in Malaysia too. I would actually say that Arab culture and ways of being has been creeping into the Malay community &#8211; you can see more Arabic sounding names now (some sound more Arabic than Arab names!), people wearing the Arabic jubah&#8230;etc&#8230;.and Malayness has taken a backseat somehow and the Malay identity has evolved to include more elements of influence from the Middle East (dressing, mannerisms, etc).</p>
<p>As for the headscarf &#8211; it would be right to say that more women are wearing it now as opposed to the past. Muslim women of the past in Singapore did not really include the headscarf as part of their daily attire. I would not say it is &#8220;without rhyme or reason&#8221; though, there are plenty of reasons &#8211; religious, social and so on.</p>
<p>To relate it to my point in this post about religious harmony, on the whole, our govt has promoted religious harmony and takes pains to ensure that religious harmony is maintained in Singapore. There are many other examples of governments that inhibit religious harmony and practice rather than promote it. While we may disagree with what one individual in the government says about some things we also have to look at things holistically. We would not want to miss the woods for the trees. I think society also has to play a part in promoting these values, it is not the govt&#8217;s job alone in doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: 'Yu Sheng' indeed</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator>'Yu Sheng' indeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1301</guid>
		<description>Hi Khartini.

Since you are all for religious harmony, let me remind you of the inner thinkings of your fellow &#039;comrades&#039;.

&quot;Three women were brought to the Singapore General Hospital, each in the same condition and needing a blood transfusion. The first, a Southeast Asian was given the
transfusion but died a few hours later. The second, a South Asian was also given a transfusion but died a few days later. The third, an East Asian, was given a transfusion and survived. That is the X factor in development.&quot;

Here&#039;s a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWThOo6-Xo4 entitled Lee Kuan Yew: World-renowned statesman and race realist.



How about his most recent interview with the National Geographic:

“Well, we make them say the national pledge and sing the national anthem but suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa?”

&quot;The influence from the Middle East has made them have head-dresses for no rhyme or reason.”

What is your take Khartini?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Khartini.</p>
<p>Since you are all for religious harmony, let me remind you of the inner thinkings of your fellow &#8216;comrades&#8217;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Three women were brought to the Singapore General Hospital, each in the same condition and needing a blood transfusion. The first, a Southeast Asian was given the<br />
transfusion but died a few hours later. The second, a South Asian was also given a transfusion but died a few days later. The third, an East Asian, was given a transfusion and survived. That is the X factor in development.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWThOo6-Xo4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWThOo6-Xo4</a> entitled Lee Kuan Yew: World-renowned statesman and race realist.</p>
<p>How about his most recent interview with the National Geographic:</p>
<p>“Well, we make them say the national pledge and sing the national anthem but suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa?”</p>
<p>&#8220;The influence from the Middle East has made them have head-dresses for no rhyme or reason.”</p>
<p>What is your take Khartini?</p>
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		<title>By: PAP and Gerrymandering</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1288</link>
		<dc:creator>PAP and Gerrymandering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1288</guid>
		<description>Sigh.

Always thought that the PAP engaged in robust debates.

What to do,it has happened.Let&#039;s move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>Always thought that the PAP engaged in robust debates.</p>
<p>What to do,it has happened.Let&#8217;s move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Khartini Khalid</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1287</link>
		<dc:creator>Khartini Khalid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1287</guid>
		<description>As mentioned many times, I will only address points that are relevant to the topic. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned many times, I will only address points that are relevant to the topic. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: PAP Member</title>
		<link>http://www.p65.sg/2010/02/an-increasingly-open-world-but-more-closed-minds/comment-page-1/#comment-1286</link>
		<dc:creator>PAP Member</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://p65.sg/newp65/?p=349#comment-1286</guid>
		<description>:) My view is not important, my view is also not important to my masters. Once they lapse my membership, I&#039;ll have to change nick to Ex-PAP Member.

I am a simpleton. If I can vote, vote. My vote then is important. What I can&#039;t control I don&#039;t think too much. What I can control, I&#039;ll try to do the right thing.


Yes, lets huat together! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.p65.sg/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  My view is not important, my view is also not important to my masters. Once they lapse my membership, I&#8217;ll have to change nick to Ex-PAP Member.</p>
<p>I am a simpleton. If I can vote, vote. My vote then is important. What I can&#8217;t control I don&#8217;t think too much. What I can control, I&#8217;ll try to do the right thing.</p>
<p>Yes, lets huat together! <img src='http://www.p65.sg/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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